- 'I will only take work to Edinburgh now if i win an award / supported programme by a venue'
- Too hard to take work that isn't part of the 'Big 4'.
- Raised the point that if you aren't struggling with a show then you haven't really 'done' Edinburgh. You learn through the struggle and that experience can be invaluable. Perhaps that is worth the investment more than e.g 2 years of drama school at £9k per year. No where else can you have that level of experience / being able to put on an unknown work in a venue for 4 weeks.
- There is the 'Dream of Edinburgh'

- How do we define success - is it financial, getting reviews, a tour, exposure? Comes down to the personal aims of the artist. There is no one reason to go.

- The Big 4 (Pleasance, Underbelly, Assembly, Gilded Balloon' - potentially 5 now with Summerhall dominate so much space not just with programme but with bars / cafe's / literal space that it is hard to draw the public to see work not in those spaces.
- Perception that work in the Big 4 is of a higher quality than other venues
- Do venues need to take more risk?
- Less of a curated programme more of a 'first come first served' model for space within the programme
- The problems with the fringe are too big for one group to solve - and don't have the energy to tackle it.

- The Fringe Society is too small fry and they are trying but the people who need to lobby are DCMS, Edinburgh Council to hold the universities and landlords to account as they are the only ones making money.

- The purpose of the fringe isn't to be a fringe. It is a charity whose aim is to be the biggest arts festival in the world.. and it is. So there is no incentive for them to change.

What are the alternatives?
Vault / Camden Fringe / Brighton Fringe

Do we let it burn itself out and leave room for renewal in its place? Will Brexit mean there is a natural shrinking anyway?

ACE are the only arts body that do not fund Edinburgh. The money for Edinburgh is there but in the wrong places.

Interesting provocation as to whether the economic differences of doing Edinburgh / London Vaults are the same if you don't live in London?

No other festival has the same diversity of scale or genre or biggest collection of presenters, reviewers and international artists.