Li: “Just a conversation” someone said to me in DandD9 open space, and she was really relax about the idea of having a conversation.

So, I called the session here because I was curious about why and how people could have a conversation with other people and feel very relax and easy about it. I wish I could be like many people feeling very relax about having a conversation with people on things that you don't know what it is going to happen.

This was something I found challenging and difficult when I wanted to work with other people, but at the same time I felt it was a waste of time talking to art organisations or making contacts with other people. Everyone is busy in London doing their own things. I felt I just wanted to focus doing the artwork without spending time in talking or discussing, etc. But working alone, it is not what I want to be either. I want to make my art with other people, so I want to learn how to have a conversation without feeling difficult.

Paul: What is difficult about conversation? Is it because English is your second language?

Li: It is not language issue. Conversation and communication can be in any forms. It is more about feeling relax about exchanging your thoughts that is difficult and you don't even know what to expect, so you can't really explain. How do you start a conversation on something you don't really know entirely? Having a conversation with other people like this, it seems very difficult and waste of time.

Paul: What would not be waste of time? What would you rather be doing instead?

Li: That's an interesting question, what would not be waste of time and what would I rather be doing instead? Traveling a long way to this D&D Satellite to meet people I never met before and be here is not a waste of time. But going to work on a day job not doing my art practice, it seems that I have been wasting my time. Each min, hour, day, month and year past, what would you rather be doing instead?

Paul: “You Can't Get What You Want (Till You Know What You Want)”

(notes added into the conversation 7.6.14: “You Can't Get What You Want (Till You Know What You Want)” is actually the title of an inspirational song by Joe Jackson from his 1984 album “Body and Soul”. Its 30-year-old message is self-evidently true, yet many people fail to apply this basic principle to their own lives. You can listen to it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo759np9-nM)

Li: I want to work with other people and be an artist working in the art sector, rather than elsewhere. Do you know what you want?

Paul: I want to be a writer and published author. …

Li: What if you don't understand your own ideas fully yet?

Paul: There are three things you can try:

1. Preparation to explain your ideas to other people

2. Be Patient!!

3. Make sure you understand your own ideas as well.

Li: Preparation can be very creative, such as the way of a visual artist Paul Klee prepared his lecture materials. He was shy when he began as a lecturer but he spent time to prepare really well on his lecture notes, and delivered his lecture in his own manner which became very inspiring to his student. I really like his work.

Li: How do you have a conversation that you don't actually fully know?

Paul: You can discuss your ideas with others and see if you can clarify from it. You can also try to get feedback from sympathetic people. You can perhaps consider videoing yourself to use visual way of explaining/showing/demonstrating (show them rather than tell them.)

Li: Do you understand your own idea when you work?

Paul:…it is like working on a sculpture or marble, …until the shape or statue is revealed. … remove the excess materials…

Li: What is your excess materials in your writing process? Can you give me an example?

Paul: “Excess materials” is something not necessary. Things which are irrelevant or distracting materials. When the attention is in the wrong place, or the mind of focus is not given enough attention to details.

(notes added into the conversation 28.2.14: "Concentration of thought and diligent careful practice, tempered with moderation, are the foundation of success." The Cecchetti Method of Classical Ballet Theory and Technique, Cyril W. Beaumont and Stanislas Idzikowski)

Li: That's interesting. I tends to bring irrelevant materials into my works, but I will consider them as equal independent part to the central material. It is irrelevant and essential in the context.

Paul: In a conversation, your focus can go messy, unclear, no-attention. You may need to organise it. Otherwise, conversation will go everywhere, making no-sense.

Li: (Li draws an open circle on the page of her note of this conversation)

Paul: It is like collecting the ingredients, organising them into a meal or a dish. It'll come together and be worthwhile and enjoyable. When you have all the ingredient, but your don't have the recipes.

Li: This is exactly happen to me in doing the art project now. I don't have the recipes but have all the ingredients, they are very messy. Perhaps I need to learn cook well and learn to organise my ingredients well.

Paul: There is not recipes, but just have to invent your own, try experiment, test/taste it.

Paul: Patient.

Paul: organization and discipline

You need to be determined and patient to be successful.

You can try to remind yourself,

“If this doesn't work, I will try this.

If this doesn't work I will try that.

If this doesn't work I will try something else.”

persistence

Just keep trying until it works.

(notes added into the conversation 7.6.14: The concept of using multiple different techniques to resolve a problem or achieve a goal also occurs in mathematical and computing algorithms. If one fails then you just keep on trying another and another. There is a nice description of this approach at: http://computer.howstuffworks.com/question717.htm)

Li: Thank you so much, this says so much “Just a conversation” is all about and work the same way too in cooking, making a performance, writing, or working with people, etc.

Paul: I really glad you find this is helpful.

You can also try to find out,

“What else can I do that might work?”

“What can I try next?”

“There are many possibilities possible.”

Li: What is the best option? How do you decide which way to go best?

Paul: You just keep trying different possibilities until the best one, until you find the best one or one is good enough for your purpose.

Li: What else would you like to add in our conversation about this subject “Just a conversation…”

Paul: Having a conversation, it is also about deciding what you want to achieve and investigate all different ways you try to achieve it. It is about options, thinking about options.

Li: What would not be waste of time?"

Paul: Only you can answer it.

Conversation ended.

Comments:

Having just a conversation, cooking a good meal, making a good piece of theatre/performance, or doing an artwork, all require the same principles to begin with.

I want to remember what Paul's said,

“If this doesn't work, I will try this.

If this doesn't work I will try that.

If this doesn't work I will try something else.”

persistence

Just keep trying until it works.

“What else can I do that might work?”

“What can I try next?”

“There are many possibilities possible.”

I hope artists will find this is something challenging to do in their art practice too. Enjoy, relax and open to the challenges.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO PAUL FOR HIS TIME TALKING TO ME, and IMPROBABLE FOR KEEPING THE SPACE OPEN HERE.

Comments

Li-E Chen, 1 March 2014

I tested this basic principle at work, it worked!

So happy and I decided test this out in my art practice too.

“If this doesn't work, I will try this. If this doesn't work I will try that. If this doesn't work I will try something else.” “What else can I do that might work?” “What can I try next?” “There are many possibilities possible.”